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在boxingscene网站，每周都会有一个采访专栏，这次是采访一个叫史蒂芬·爱德华兹的墨西哥裔美国人，主要提及墨西哥拳手嗑药的话题，还有帕奎奥职业生涯的嫌疑。，双方有问有答，太长，简述。
我有个问题要问你，随着所有PED事件的愈演愈烈，你如何看待一个被强烈怀疑但从未被测试过阳性的人的遗产，例如曼尼·帕奎奥。
我知道你一直说他是一个伟大的战士，很难判断一个从来没有测试过阳性的拳手，但他有一个强有力的例子。他最好的胜利都是处在药物的阴影下。我知道你不能说他是否脏，因为我们不知道，但你可以简单说一下，如果你拿走他的遗产，我甚至不知道如何给他在历史上进行排名。
斯蒂芬.爱德华兹答；“这是一个很好的话题，当我第一次听说他可能使用增强性能的药物是在2009年的时候，但我并没有像今天这么认真。原因是在职业拳击中还没有实施额外的测试。随着时间的推移，我开始研究，我把它变得更严肃，这就是我说的。
帕奎奥被指控是因为他从112-150的体重猛增而引起怀疑，我完全明白这一点。但是我一直都知道杜兰，赫恩斯和阿姆斯特朗体重增加时也有类似的情况，并且获得了类似的成功。所以虽然体重跳跃是罕见的，但之前发生过。
最初让我怀疑的起因是，马里格纳吉公开指责帕奎奥用药，但帕奎奥从没有起诉他。我很指责马里格纳吉，尊重他对拳击的看法。我可能不同意他所说的一切，但我尊重他。马里格纳吉似乎知道帕奎奥使用药物，但帕奎奥从不挑战马里格纳吉对他的指责，这对我来说很奇怪。
帕奎奥做过的另一件让我感到困扰的是，他从来没有让任何对手做过额外的测试，直到他被马奎兹KO。他在2011- 2012年被大多数人公开怀疑，曼尼是一名正直的政治家，他不应该让他的对手遭受残酷的失败。
帕奎奥在巅峰期击败大卫.迪亚兹，莫斯利，是我所见过的最棒的PPV巅峰表演。琼斯，维塔克，伦纳德，梅威瑟（VS科拉莱斯），哈格勒，杜兰，都没有能在成为PPV明星时做到这种极致。帕奎奥在140-147磅时所做的一切，对于一个在112磅起家的男人来说是独一无二的。
但公平的说，很多有知识的人认为，这是选择对手和时机的能力。他们认为迪亚兹和哈顿是定制的，霍亚虚脱，库托状态不好，马加里托被安排好了。但被马奎兹终结反倒是有利于帕奎奥历史干净的定位。虽然关于马奎兹的传言也很多，无论是体重或年龄，马奎兹终结帕奎奥绝对不是巧合，他总是能给对手造成麻烦。
帕奎奥有一些表现也让我不去想象作弊的问题，参加VADA测试后击败里奥斯，P4P排名第七的布拉德利，阿尔吉里。战梅威瑟胜了四回合，这个四回合之前只有卡斯蒂洛，朱达，霍亚，阿瓦雷兹和麦达纳做过。之后又击败布拉德利和瓦加斯，这可不是开玩笑，因为瓦加斯刚刚KO了萨达姆.阿里。
如果用枪指着我的头，我可以说帕奎奥使用过增强性能的药物。虽然08-09年还没有人在VADA或USADA测试过， VADA甚至还没有存在......所以......同时我也不太相信他所做的一切都是因为药物的帮助，或者他必须成为一个骗子。因为他在2008年之前取得了成功，最令人印象深刻的是他作为一个老拳击手的成功。所以，就像你一样，我也有点纠结，但我可以把一切都考虑进去，尽可能的公平”。
I have a question for you. With all the PED drama going on, how do view one’s legacy who was strongly suspected but never tested positive. For example Manny Pacquiao. I know you have always said he was a great fighter and it’s hard to judge a fighter who never tested positive but there is a strong case that he used. There is a strong case that his best victories were under the influence of PEDs. I know you can’t say if he’s dirty or not because we don’t know but you can say if you take away from his legacy. I’m torn on Manny and I just don’t know how to rank him historically.
Bread’s Response: This could be the best question I ever got. And guess what because of how you phrased it I’m going to answer it.
I am all over the place with Manny Pacquiao. When I first heard of him possibly being on PEDs in 2009 I didn’t take it as serious as I do today. The reason being is extra testing was not implemented yet in professional boxing. As time went by I researched and I took it more serious and here is what I came up with.
Pacquiao was accused of being suspicious because of his crazy weight jump from 112-150. I totally understood that. But I always knew that Duran, Hearns and Armstrong jumped similar weights with same day weigh ins and had similar success. So while the weight jump was rare it had happened before.
Some of things that made me suspect Manny was Paulie Malignaggi openly saying Manny is a PED cheat. Manny never sued Malignaggi. I happen to respect Paulie a great deal and I respect his opinion on boxing. I may not agree with everything he says but I respect him. Paulie seems to know Manny used PEDs and Manny never challenges Paulie and his accusations. That’s very odd to me. Especially when Manny was willing to sue Floyd Mayweather for the same accusations but never sued Paulie. Malignaggi trained at Wild Card and it’s almost like he dares Manny to publicly challenge him. Manny never does……
Another thing that Manny did that bothered me was he never made anyone test extra until he was kod by Juan Manuel Marquez, who most people in boxing openly suspected in 2011-12. Manny is a politician in the sense of fairness it shouldn’t have taken a brutal ko loss for him to want his opponents to test.
Before I get to the points that favor Manny not using PEDs I will touch on one that teeters the fence for me. Manny’s run from David Diaz in 2008 to Shane Mosley in 2011, is the best big PPV peak performance run I have ever seen. To be clear Roy Jones, Pernell Whitaker, Ray Leonard and Floyd Mayweather may have been better in their prime. But Jones wasn’t the PPV star Manny was. Whitaker was a great HBO house fighter but again by the time he made to PPV he was past his prime. Ray Leonard’s prime was cut short by an injury. Floyd Mayweather had a perfect fight vs Diego Corrales but that was long before he became a PPV star. Manny fought about 4 perfect fights in a row as the major star in boxing, no one has ever done that.
These peak performances came at his ceiling weight. That’s not a good sign if you’re talking about a clean fighter. Most fighters peak out at their natural weights and will have some good performances at their ceiling weight but they won’t go on their best career runs at their ceiling weight. Duran fought Hagler well and beat Barkley at 160 but he had some rough nights in between that at 160. What Manny did as far as peaking out around 140-47 is unique for a man that started out at 112.
But in fairness to Manny lots of knowledgeable people think it was match** and timing. I’ve heard Diaz and Hatton were made to order. Oscar was weight drained. Cotto was in a rut. Margarito was made to order. I know you guys have to. The one thing that favors Manny being clean during this historic run is Juan Manuel Marquez. If you observe closely Marquez knew how to fight Manny better than any opponent he’s ever faced. His historic run started the exact fight after Marquez in 2008 and it ended with another tough fight against Marquez in 2011. That was not a coincidence. I know there were heavy rumors about Marquez also. But we can’t prove that. What we can prove is that Marquez always won about 50% of his rounds boxed vs Manny regardless of the year and weight. He always troubled him. So for the people who felt that Manny’s run was just match** and timing, the run being sandwiched by Marquez holds some relevance.
Now here are the things that make me take a pause in personal assumption that Manny had to be cheating circa 08-09. I saw Manny in 2001 vs Ledwaba and Julio. He was a straight wrecking ball with uncommon power and athleticism. His calves were the sizes of a welterweights. He hit Emanuel Lucero so hard Lucero walked like 4 steps and collapsed at 122! He was already a great fighter and a HOF before his rise in weight in 2008. So the theory that he became great out of nowhere is false.
Now in 2013 Manny was past his best days. Especially for an older, hyper active welterweight who was just brutally kod in 2012. So Manny starts testing under VADA and he puts together a nice run. He beats Brandon Rios really easily and in 2013 Rios could still fight. The fight was not competitive and Manny was coming off of a year layoff vs the younger bigger fighter. Then Manny beats a legitimate great fighter in Tim Bradley. Bradley was a top 7 p4p type of guy at the time and he’s a HOF. Then Manny beats an undefeated Chris Algieri. Algieri is a very capable fighter. Ask Ruslan Provodnikov and Amir Khan. Manny dominated Algieri. Manny was also able to visibly hurt Floyd Mayweather and win 4 rounds against him. Only 6 men in history have been able to win 4 rounds officially vs Mayweather in a 12 round fight. Oscar De La Hoya, Zab Judah, Canelo Alvarez, Marcos Maidana, Jose Luis Castillo. I’m not a big stat guy but this is one statistic that I give credence too. Out of the 6 men who were able to win 4 rounds vs Mayweather only Oscar, Castillo, Maidana and Pacquiao were able to do it on more than one scorecard.
Mayweather could be the most difficult fighter in history to win 4 or more rounds against in the 12 round era. For Manny to do that well past his prime and under testing in my opinion shows he was always a great fighter. After Manny loses to Floyd he goes out and drops and comprehensively beats Tim Bradley again. Bradley was a lot younger than Manny, had half the number of fights and much less wear and tear. Manny was able to defeat him again under testing. Then he goes on to beat Jesse Vargas who is no joke. Vargas had just knocked out Sadam Ali. Last but not least I thought Manny beat Jeff Horn who is a big awkward , rough dude.
So Manny’s run under testing is high quality especially for an aging fighter who was kod at 34 years old. I have to give him credit for that.
Gun to my head and I had to bet I wouldn’t say Manny Pacquiao never used PEDs. Although no one was testing VADA or USADA in 08-09. VADA didn’t even exist yet….So…..At the same time I’m not overly convinced that everything he did was PED enhanced or he had to be a cheater as some other people because of his success pre 2008 and most impressively his success as an older fighter post the Marquez ko. So as you are I’m a little torn. That’s as fair as I can be while taking everything into consideration. |
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2023-10-20 22:42:55
2023-10-20 22:47:30
